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ecouri ale vietii si muzicii lui celibidache

When Celi played Philly

A personal reminiscence by Robert Fitzpatrick:

Celibidache visited the Curtis Institute of Music in Philadelphia for 3 weeks in February 1984.  He demanded and received 18 rehearsals (most were 3 hours long) to prepare the legendary Carnegie Hall concert that same month (his debut there, I believe).  The program was: La Gazza Ladra Overture (Rossini), Iberia (Debussy), Prelude and Love-Death from Tristan und Isolde (Wagner), Scythian Suite (Prokofiev).  Encore was second movement of Scythian.
Here is picture of both of us on stage at Carnegie Hall.  He is saying: ”Now we will hear how the world’s greatest concert hall really sounds.”  The tone was somewhere between irony and sarcasm with all the subtleties in between.
UPDATE: And here’s a picture from David Bernard, who took a conducting less from Celi and Curtis and played in the Carnegue concert.
And here’s his full rehearsal schedule:


  1. Lovely to see this! Odd coincidence that I just now posted a Celibidache related post on my own blog. You can read it here:
  2. Robert Fitzpatrick says:
    An unforgettable anecdote from the Celibidache rehearsals: The Curtis orchestra was playing the Wagner (Prelude and Love-Death) in a run through at the dress rehearsal; and it was, as they say, cookin’ with gas. At the climax tutti in Isolde’s death, the principal trumpet missed his entrance. Celibidache stopped and in his quizzical manner asked” “Trumpet, why so?” The young man’s reply: “Professor, it was so beautiful that I couldn’t bring myself to play and ruin it!” Celibidache laughed heartily and the rehearsal continued. ( He asked that the students call him Professor rather than Maestro or Mr. Celibidache).
    Celibidache also had the habit of saying that the intonation sounded very Chinese. A Chinese violinist from Shanghai (very rare in 1984 to have mainland Chinese studying in the USA), became infuriated and asked me what to do, I told him to speak to the Professor privately during a break. After that conversation, Celibidache apologized publicly to the orchestra and never said that comment again (although he found other colorful ways to comment on any shortcomings, you can be sure).
  3. Robert Duerr says:
    I was privileged to have attended the rehearsals, conducting sessions and concert. The intonation he worked of with the orchestra was revelatory. It was an unforgettable occasion.
  4. Doug says:
    Isn’t Celibidache’s visit the incident that caused John de Lancie to resign from Curtis? Anyone care to elaborate?
    • Robert Fitzpatrick says:
      Provocative question Doug.
      John de Lancie (Director of Curtis and former solo oboe of Phila Orch) engaged Celibidache to put Curtis and its orchestra on the map. The problem was that the whole project cost $125,000 (conductor fee, Carnegie rental, etc, etc) which sounds like peanuts today but was considered exorbitant in 1984 (especially by the Curtis Board who didn’t realize that JdL was spending that kind of money until after the fact). A Board asleep at the switch is not a new phenomenon. The Celibidache visit did not, in itself, cause de Lancie to leave. But, it was one of a string of similar incidents 1983-85 that led to his departure in May 1985. It also didn’t help that Celibidache publically insulted Eugene Ormandy (who was very ill and at death’s door at that time) and Riccardo Muti who was the MD of Phila Orch in 1984. John de Lancie had nothing but the best intentions for the students, the school, and Philadelphia. But, things did not work out exactly as planned even though the Carnegie Hall concert might possibly be the all-time single greatest performance by a student orchestra (Dudamel and his band, notwithstanding), just my opinion. I will leave it to others to pass judgment since I was activiely involved in this concert.
      There were articles about de Lancie’s departure in the NYT and Phila Inquirer at the time that are reasonably accurate including investigative reporting by Michael Kimmelman which appeared in Spring 1985 in the Inquirer. There was also a NYTimes review of the Curtis-Celibidache concert which compared Curtis more-than-favorably to Phila Orch under Muti at Carnegie that same week. If I ever write a book, this event will take up a large chapter. It was fascinating to be in the middle of this excitement.
      Does that help, Doug?
      • Completely new to me. What did Celi say about Ormandy?
        • Robert Fitzpatrick says:
          There is actually an NYT pre-concert article from 1984 which quotes SC as saying that Riccardo Muti was an “ignorant” and that Ormandy was incompetent. He did have reasonably good things to say about Stokowski. Remember, this is the man who when asked his opinion on big Herbie (as James Galway used to call him) went into litany of insults, and when the interviewer reminded him that Herbert von Karajan was a household word, Celibidache replied: “And so is Coca-Cola…”
          • Doug says:
            ..and Coca Cola goes down easier and doesn’t demand a limo and arm candy for the night.
            Thanks for that, Robert. I heard bits and pieces of this story before so your account sheds much more light. I would ask the Curtis students who participated in the project what they remember most, the special experience with SC or the residual angst over the amount of money spent on the whole thing?
            I also love it when esteemed musicians let loose on their ‘colleagues’ which reminds me of the time I was with Mitch Miller and a newspaper reporter. The reporter and I were beside ourselves in laughter as Mitch let loose with one insult after another on other symphony Pops figures (schmuck, nudnik, putz–I won’t name names here) and it’s something I’ll never forget.
        • Iain Scott says:
          If my memory serves me right working with Celi was one of the,if not main,reasons for John Georgiadis ,the violinist and leader leaving the LSO.
          I booked Georgiadis for a recital after he left the LSO and he told me about the profound impact working with Celi had on him. He was a real admirer.
          • I remember those LSO sessions. Hardly any section escaped the insults.
          • Istvan Horthy says:
            Celi did well to treat the LSO roughly, thus avenging Giulini and Jochum’s disgraceful treatment at their hands (shouts of “You’re no effing good, mate! and a double-bassist simulating copulation with his instrument, among other incidents).
            Celi was psychologically very shrewd: he was charming towards choirs (a singer trembling in his or her shoes cannot sing properly) but had instrumentalists on the edge of their seats.
            He could also be very kind and understanding with individuals – and what an intellect!
      • Wanderer says:
        Is there a conductor Celibidache did NOT insult?
        • Don Ciccio says:
          Quite a few actually, starting with Furtwängler (he had private doubts about his technique, but he never insulted him publicly.) Franco Ferrara is another one. So is Tennstedt. And he came to respect Bernstein, saying that Lenny’s death was a big loss to music (true, his earlier comments about Bernstein weren’t that favorable but he did finally respect him, and it seems that the respect was mutual.)
      • David Bernard says:
        Bob…the interesting thing is that while at the time a conservatory spending the rental and labor fees to perform at Carnegie Hall was unheard of. Curtis was the first I think. Even Juilliard did not do that back then I believe. Now, everyone is doing it-not just conservatories, but universities as well. That one event was certainly Curtis being cutting edge in 1984.
  5. Felipe Izcaray says:
    Yes, there is a conductor he did not insult. Celibidache always praised Italian Maestro Franco Ferrara as the best conductor he ever saw. He very much respected Furtwängler also. I read a Caracas newspaper interview(El nacional, sometimes in December 1962, while preparing a concert with the OSV Venezuelan Symphony). Asked about other conductors, Celibidache gave these answers: Toscanini? “A good conductor, a bad musician”. Karajan? “Who?”. Bernstein? “I must admit sometimes I like him”.
    • Robert Fitzpatrick says:
      Agreed on Furtwangler. He also told me that he liked Bernstein when I mentioned that the Curtis Orch would play for LB next in 1984. Toscanini, however, brought on a diatribe even worse than HvK. Wasn’t Ferrara Muti’s teacher? I wonder what happened? LOL.
      • Felipe Izcaray says:
        When I attended a conducting course with Maestro ferrara in Rome (Santa cecilia Conservatory) in the summer of 1981, everyone among the regular Ferrara pupils said that among the former FF students, Muti was the best known of them all. I guess Celi’s admiration for the Italian Maestro did not extend to his flock. And yes, you are right, Celi did attack Toscanini with heavier artillery, but not in the above mentioned interview. I was briefly close to Celibidache back in 1977 during a visit to Caracas to honour the memory of his friend Vicente Emilio Sojo, and during tue week or so he stayed in Venezuela, where his sister lived, I heard some spicy vocal charges against several conductors and soloists. His most admired pianist was, of course, Arturo Benedetti Michelangeli. During a lecture he told the audience he once told Szeryng “Are you mentally retarded?” because of the way HS played the initial phrase of the Mendelsohnn E minor Violin Concerto.
      • Felipe Izcaray says:
        The comment was alledgelly made during a rehearsal in Mexico.
      • andi zhok says:
        Ferrara may have taught Muti, ironically, though Muti always mentions A. Votto as his real mentor. Great to read all these anectdotes. Keep them coming!
    • Victor Eskenasy says:
      There were other conductors that were never insulted by Celibidache, but respected as proves his correspondence sent to Romanian friends. I doubt that he considered Ferrara the most relevant. As I know he admired de Sabata, respected much Hermann Scherchen, not to talk about his initial model, Furtwangler.
    • David Bernard says:
      At a social gathering after a rehearsal, I asked Celibidache about Szell. He replied “A great musician, but a not so good conductor”
  6. Martin Bookspan says:
    I was in the audience at that Celebidache/Curtis concert in Carnegie Hall. Yes, the playing was first-rate and everything was polished to a brilliant shine. But that’s all it was for me–a collection of orchestral sound effects with no heart, mind or soul from the podium.
    • Robert Fitzpatrick says:
      You are not alone in that assessment, Martin. For many, a Celibidache concert was a religious experience, you were either a believer or you weren’t. I started as a believer, and by the end of the process became a skeptic.
    • harold braun says:
      Couldn`t agree more,Mr.Bookspan.He was a ridicoulosly overrated conductor,who stylized himself to a cult figure of messianic proportions,sheepishly worshipped by his cult followers. Most of his performances were mercilessly boring at crippling slow speed,with every ounce of life being sucked out in endless tiresome rehearsals.As a person he was pompous,narcissistic and often sexist and racist.True ,he was agreat stick and had fantastic ears,but…I´d rather not say what the late Maurice Murphy(LSO principal trumpet) said to me about him a couple of years ago.Give me Ormandy or Muti any day for him!
      • oakmountain says:
        Dear Harold Braun,
        As a great fan of the late and legendary Maurice Murphy,
        what can I do as to bribe you into telling us what he said
        about Celibidache? I am sure it was insightful and beautifully argued ;-)
  7. Richard Herger says:
    About right.
  8. Wanderer says:
    Karajan was Celi’s big trauma he never overcame in his life. Having built a strong relationship with the Berlin Phil after Borchard’s death and Furtwängler’s denazification years, he was devastated when the orchestra elected Karajan instead of him and saw that Celi would not get a chance to conduct them ever. You can feel some of that deep despise even almost 40 years later, when he conducted the Berlin Phil the first and only time after Karajan took over in 1955. Almost a bitter old man in this incident. He also had much lovelier sides, but not when confronted with his lifetime trauma.

  9. Robert Fitzpatrick says:
    NYT review from February 28, 1984.
    And here’s the review later that week that made Muti’s blood boil:
    Celibidache actually wanted to perform Bruckner 4 with Curtis that week but cooler heads prevailed.
  10. Andrew Powell says:
    Celibidache was bitter about being sidelined for decades by the record industry and major festivals and he gave perverse readings of music by Rossini, Brahms, and other composers, as well as inordinately slow, if well structured, traversals of Bruckner symphonies.
    No doubt he was fascinating to work with, for some players. But what exactly is his legacy? Munich’s Gasteig? I can think of no singularly indispensable disc of orchestral music left by him, and of course there is no opera — a neat corollary when we read that he dumped on all three of the greatest Verdi conductors of the 20th century.
  11. Rosalind says:
    Robert – please, please write a book! Your reminiscences are absolutely fascinating. Was any film footage (Celi approved or not…) taken of the Carnegie Hall concert?
    Did Celibidache have any views on Carlos Kleiber as a conductor?
    • Robert Fitzpatrick says:
      There is no legal video footage of the Carnegie Concert. But, the next morning, one could buy audio cassettes of the complete concert on the streets of NYC. Several of those bootleg recordings are currently available on YouTube and do not do justice to the balance. There was an official, legal, audio recording which was broadcast on NPR after the event. and supervised by the late Andrew Kazdin. Celibidache approved it and a contract was signed with the Carnegie stage crew according to their contract at that time. The cost of that recording was $25K and John de Lancie found a private source to underwrite the expense.
      During one rehearsal at Curtis, I quietly set up a VCR camera on a tripod out of everyone’s view. Celibidache eventually spotted it, looked at me and winked, and continued conducting. We never discussed it and that document is in a secure place (but not in my possession).
      • Robert Fitzpatrick says:
        PS: I never personally heard him discuss Carlos Kleiber.
        • Wanderer says:
          But you do know the infamous open letter Carlos Kleiber wrote to Celi under the synonym of Toscanini, published in ‘Der Spiegel’, commenting in the most comical way on some of Celi’s well known below the belt punches at his colleagues?

          • Alexander Radziewski says:
            Wanderer, thanks for the Link to the TELEX. That’s great and the only possible answer to a social ***hole
  12. Celibidache could be quite sexist. My wife famously won an audition for first trombone for the Munich Phil behind a screen. Many sexists in the orchestra objected. Celi wanted to fire her but had no basis so demoted her to second with the declaration “You know the problem, we need a man for the solo trombone.” After lengthy court battles and years of harassment, she regained her position. You can read the full, highly documented story here:
    By chance, when Celi visited the Curtis orchestra it also had a woman first trombone, Deborah Taylor. One of his first actions was to remove her from her chair.
    Celi abused not only colleagues, but also, of course, journalists. Here is a quote that also reveals his misogyny and vulgar nature, taken from the Abendzeitung on Nov. 10, 1984:
    “These people who daily poison everything, should take a pause or write about gynecology. In that area everyone has a little experience. But in music they are virgins. So they will remain, and so they will go into the other world, never fertilized by a single experienced tone.”(28)
    And of course, he referred to Anna Sophie Mutter as a “violin playing hen.” Given the nature of the classical music world, this behavior does not inhibit many from worshiping him. And in Munich the behavior extended to even groveling. It was all very revealing.
    • I should add that when Anna Sophe Mutter was engaged to solo with the Munich Phil, Celibidache treated her so badly she walked out of the rehearsals and her performance was cancelled.
      • The last time I saw Celi, around 1991, he was rehearsing the Tchaikovsky concerto in Munich with Barenboim. It was a total love-in.
        • Yes, male soloists were a different matter. Celibidache had a gypsy heritage. As Barenboim put it, this reflected both the best and worst parts of his personality. What remains with me to this day is how the more he abused the people in Munich, the more they grovelingly worshipped him. Rightly or wrongly, it gave me some insights about German history, especially in Bavaria. The ironic correlations were impossible to overlook. Fortunately, in the UK, Italy, and even other parts of Germany such as Stuttgart, his abuses were not tolerated and he was always sent packing. His ethnic slurs against the Chinese were an example at Curtis, but he wasn’t around long enough to get into serious trouble. His unfortunate character greatly limited his career, and often even his musical gifts.
        • Wanderer says:
          Barenboim was not a Karajan prodigy as Mutter was. Celibidache hated anything even remotely connected to Karajan. He was like a hurt animal in that regard.
        • Robert Fitzpatrick says:
          …Celibidache wonders why none of his “students” have ever had a career. Barenboim replies: I consider myself as your student but perhaps I have succeeded because I never actually studied with you! (That’s a paraphrase, not a direct quote). It was part of a documentary shown June 27 on ARTE in Europe titled “Maestro Furioso.”
          I think Mr. Osborne’s comments remind us that Sergiu Celibidache was a complex figure who certainly had a dark side.
          • Warren Cohen says:
            Does anyone know of any comments he made on the idea of a woman conductor? I imagine it would be quite rude and probably include some reference to their appearance.
            I have known a couple of his “students”. It was weird to talk to them about Celi. They were both reverential about him bur it was clear when they described the process of working with him that he was undermining their confidence at every turn. They may have learned a lot, but he was psychologically abusive, something some people recognized but others missed. I am sure this contributed to the lack of success of his students, and it seems that Barenboim recognized this from his comment.
          • Wanderer says:
            Nobody who had the guts to actually be a real conductor did submit himself to Celi’s abusive treatment more than once, by standing on the podium in his presence. Those who were attracted to receive his special treatmetn probably were candidates for a therapy when they started, and more so when they finished studying with him.
            But one could learn a universe and more from him by simply listening and observing. Or asking questions.
  13. Wanderer says:
    Here’s a quick translation of the infamous letter of “Toscanini”-Kleiber to Celi:
    In SPIEGEL No. 16 reported SPIEGEL-Editor Klaus Umbach about the conductor Sergiu Celibidache, who after the Second World War stepped in for a few years for Wilhelm Furtwangler as the Berlin Philharmonic Orchestra’s chief conductor, also known for some time as a follower of Zen-Buddhism. In the article was also a selection of the infamous attacks on dead and living colleagues such as: “Karajan? Terrible. ” “Either he’s a good businessman, or he can not hear,” “Hans Knappertsbusch – a scandal”, “non-music to the end.” “Arturo Toscanini – a sole note factory. ‘” . “Karl Böhm – a potato sack,” “.. has not conducted a single bar of music in his life,”
    Now reached us from heaven a telex in (heavenly appropriate) English by Arturo Toscanini, “relayed” by the otherwise extremely publicity-shy Conductor Carlos Kleiber.
    Telex from Toscanini (Heaven) to Celibidache (Munich)
    Dear Sergiu!
    We read in Der Spiegel about you. You are annoying, but we forgive you.
    We have no choice: forgiveness is considered good manners up here. Potato sack – Karli * raised some objections, but as the boys’ and I have persuaded him and assured him that he was musically talented, he stopped lamenting.
    Wilhelm suddenly insists firmly that he never heard your name before. Papa Joseph, Wolfgang Amadeus, Ludwig, Johannes and Anton said that they prefer the second violins on the right side and that your tempi are all wrong. But actually they don’t give shit. Up here one shouldn’t care for shit anyway. The boss does not want it.
    An old master of Zen, who lives next door, says that you have understood the Zen Buddhism in a totally wrong way. Bruno almost got sick from too much laughing about your comments. I suspect that he shares your opinion on me and Karli secretly. Maybe you could for once also say something mean about him, he feels otherwise a bit excluded.
    I’m sorry to tell you this, but up here everybody is fanatic about Herbert, yes, the conductors are even a little bit jealous of him. We can not wait to welcome him in about fifteen to twenty years up here. [the letter was written in spring 1989]Too bad you can not be here then. But they say that where you will go, the service is much better, and that the orchestras down there rehearse indefinitely. They even make small mistakes on purpose so you can correct them for all eternity.
    I’m sure you will like it, Sergiu. Up here, the angels read everything directly from the eyes of the composers, we conductors just need to listen. Only God knows how I got here.
    Have fun and with love, Arturo.
    • Don Ciccio says:
      This letter is only part of the story. The same Klaus Umbach tells us that Carlos Kleiber was spotted in more than one occasion at Celi’s concerts in Gasteig, and that, when Celi was sick, he was the first to send get well wishes. So CC’s view of Celi was definitely more complex than what the letter seems to suggest.
  14. Maestro Flash Montoya says:
    Question:a who set the prices for the auditors’ fees? $500 in 1984 is almost $1200 today!
    • Robert Fitzpatrick says:
      Fees were set by Curtis to offset expenses and there were no scholarships (at the all-scholarship school!) $500 for 3 weeks and I think there were about 30 auditors. We had no trouble collecting it in advance and sold out. I want to know where Norman found that schedule; it’s the real thing. I should know, I typed it myself, LOL.
      Given the above Kleiber-Toscanini letter to Sergiu, I would gladly pay $1200 just for a chance to shake Keliber’s hand! He must be having a great time up there. Here is my favorite conductor story (Norman, please delete if you find it repulsive):
      Von Karajan dies and goes to hell where the Devil meets him and shows him around; lot’s of screaming, moaning, torture, etc, etc. Then the Devil introduces him to this ugly hag and tells him that he will have to make love to her forever; in another corner Herbie sees Celibidache making love to Marilyn Monroe. Wait a minute, says Herbie, how come I get this ugly hag and Celi is there with MM? The Devil replies: Maestro, Miss Monroe’s punishment is none of your business. (Conductors’ names are interchangeable with most practitioners, living or dead).
  15. Victor Eskenasy says:
    See also Raffaele Napoli’s reminiscenses:
  16. In an interview in a Munich newspaper in the mid 80s, Celibidache lamented the fact that there was no longer a “German vibrato,” and that now there was only an “Israeli vibrato.” That would have been bad enough, but during the Reich the Munich Phil was known as “The Orchestra of the Fascist Movement” and stamped all of its music with those words circumscribing an eagle holding a swastika in its talons. After the war they blotted out the words, but left the swastikas untouched. They were not removed until 1991 after I wrote *two* letters to the cultural ministry asking that they require the orchestra to remove them.
    After my first letter, the orchestra lied about it and said there were no swastikas on the music. I had already anticipated that they would lie, so I had made numerous photocopies of the swastikas on the music. I included the copies in a second letter sent to the cultural ministry and to several members of the city council. The swastikas were then removed. Afterwards, the orchestra wrote a letter to me and said I was just trying to embarrass them. In a rehearsal shortly afterwards, one of my wife’s trombone colleagues turned to her in a rehearsal and in the orchestra’s defense said, “They were just little swastikas.” I kid you not.
    • Wanderer says:
      Did he really say “Israeli vibrato”? Quite offensive, even though he has a point. ;) Which newspaper was it?
      I remember him several times lamenting about “alles ist vibratoinfiziert heute”, but never heard him referring to Israel in this or any other regard.
      Regarding the swastikas, little in appearance and big in impact, it must have been a PITA for the librarians to go through all the orchestra printed material and make them invisible, so from a practical POV I do understand the orchestra, but of course you are right to demand them removed.
      • Delmar Williams says:
        Someone has posted most if not all the audio from the Celibedache shows at Curtis on youtube.
        • Delmar Williams says:
          Now that I have his name spelled correctly, here is the whole show…

          • Robert Fitzpatrick says:
            To my ears, these all sound like pirate recordings. The balance is not good and the orchestral sound is distant (as if recorded from a machine on someone’s lap is the peanut gallery). I have heard the official recording made by Andrew Kazdin and it is excellent and to my knowledge not available unless someone recorded it off the air during a broadcast in 1984 (I believe the contract called for an original broadcast and a rebroadcast within a finite period of time. Even Curtis does not have the original master. Please listen with more than a grain of salt.
            Whatever one thinks of Celibidache, orchestral balance and sound quality were always impeccable (at least during this performance).
      • Yes, he said “Israeli vibrato.” I believe it was the Abendzeitung in the second half of the 80s – though it might have been in the TZ. I’m currently in the States for the summer and so do not have access to my files, or I would give the exact reference and quote. Normally, such tasteless remarks might seem innocuous, but the idea of Jews polluting German culture has a terrible history, so Celibidache’s comment was inexcusable and actually appalling. What I found most troubling was that no one in Munich breathed a word about it.
  17. Andy says:
    When Munich Philharmonic came to Israel with Celibidace in the early 90′s they performed Bruckner 4th and possibly other works from music with the above mentioned swastikas seals stamped on them. Journalists, who were eagerly coving the event of a Munich-based orchestra in Israel somehow over looked this detail as they filmed over the shoulders of the players.
    • A close up of the music would have been necessary to see the swastikas — they were small and somewhat faded. All things considered, I’m glad they were not shown. It was the abysmal treatment of the Israeli violinist, Tali Steiner, in the Muncih Phil that motivated me to ask them to remove the swastikas.
      • what happened, William?
        • I don’t want to speak too much about the details because I’m not sure what Tali would like said. She was in her trial year and faced resentments from some of the colleagues that were unfair and irrelevant. She was fired. The reasons given were absurd – that she was too fat and that she put the music stand too much on her side.
          Tali is a very good violinist and was far better than most of the section. She also has a very jovial, outgoing personality. Many of the colleagues were appalled at her treatment and tried to intervene to keep her in the orchestra. A large conflict ensued in the orchestra, but her supporters were not able to save her position. I think Tali also just wanted out of there.
          Many members in the orchestra felt anti-Semitism was involved. In response, one of the first oboes who was an aspiring conductor, organized a chamber orchestra concert of the music of some survivors. (I can’t remember the exact program.) I thought it was a very beautiful and appropriate gesture that spoke for the better part of the orchestra. After she was fired, I wanted to document her experiences in detail, but Tali just wanted to move on. Not long afterwards she won a position in the Israel Philharmonic.
  18. Alexander says:
    My first experience of Celibidache was this dreadful, plodding account of Prokofiev 1:
    How could anyone do that to such a marvelous piece? It’s a crime against music. It has no sparkle, no life, nothing.
    Subsequent hearings with other repertoire haven’t changed my mind about him.
  19. I went to Temple, but had several friends at Curtis, and remember his visit having a big impact on the students.
    Wonder what it would cost in today’s $$$?
    What an amazing experience.

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